WHAM
That, folks, is the sound of the door slamming shut on the Eagles' 2008 season.
Oh sure, the team will talk a good game this week. How they're not out of it yet. How they just need to make a little run. How anything can happen in the NFL.
Nope. It's over.
The wheels are off, the lights are out, it's time to close the book on Kellner.
Andy Reid admitted as much at halftime when he benched Donovan McNabb. Yeah, McNabb was playing like crap again today. There's no question.
However, after Kevin Kolb came in and did his best Mike McMahon impression, it was just as clear that Donovan would have given this team its best chance to win today.
McNabb's had a hell of a run here. I doubt his career is even close to over. But even if he trots back out next week as the starter, his career in Philadelphia is done. We're just waiting to see what date goes last on the tombstone.
But it's time to find out what Kolb can do. I doubt he's as bad as he looked today, but he's not getting any better sitting on the bench. Throw him out there, let him get a taste of those NFC East opponents this year so he's better prepared next year for what's coming. Find out if he's got it.
It's also time to get all those other young guys into games, starting next week against the Cardinals. I want to see Booker. I want to see Demps. I even, yes, want to see Winston Justice.
Reid isn't going anywhere, folks, so this isn't the end of the Andy Reid era. It is, however, the end of the second third McNabb era. The one that kind of ended up sucking, most of the time.
I don't blame McNabb. Those of you who do will probably be a lot less vocal today, after the anointed one came in and looked like crap. But in the end, it doesn't really matter.
Either way, it's over. Time for Act IV.
"Reid isn't going anywhere, folks, so this isn't the end of the Andy Reid era."
Are we sure about this? I've been as big a Reid supporter as anyone, but the root of the Eagles problems isn't Donovan McNabb -- it's Andy Reid. And I don't think he should get a free pass just because he's throwing McNabb under the bus.
Posted by: PhillyFriar | November 23, 2008 at 04:39 PM
A lot of positions need major overhauls. The Eagles have to be super aggressive in free agency, I'm talking $0 left in the cap.
Then they have to be aggressive with the draft. OT/OG and RB/TE in the first round.
Honestly, this defense, while having certain bad games this year, is fairly solid. This draft and free agency has to focus almost entirely on the offense.
I'm fine with Kolb's performance. I don't know what people would expect him to do against one of the best defenses in the league and having no practice time with anyone on this offense.
But it's time to dump McNabb (hopefully a trade to get something for him) and save some cap room. Then dump at least Runyan and definitively find out whether Andrews will ever play again. Then the draft. Find an OT either in free agency or the draft to replace Runyan and/or Thomas. Then find a back to help Westbrook in his last years here and to be the future. Then get a TE.
I still don't think this team is far off. The key pieces missing are on offense.
Posted by: Eric | November 23, 2008 at 04:50 PM
Reid didn't tell McNabb he was being benched? Wow. Train wreck.
Time to shake things up in Philly. Time for a new beginning.
Reid and McNabb are definitely both elite. I am grateful for what they both did for Eagles football. That said, it's time to start over.
Reid has lost the team. McNabb has lost Reid.
Posted by: Soups | November 23, 2008 at 04:55 PM
"I don't blame McNabb. Those of you who do will probably be a lot less vocal today, after the anointed one came in and looked like crap"
Who's the annoited one? Are you seriously comparing a virtual rookie QB to a veteran starter? Does Kolb even prepare with the first team during the week? Both QB's stat lines were almost identical.
Posted by: MSE69 | November 23, 2008 at 05:08 PM
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
Posted by: BrianS | November 23, 2008 at 05:12 PM
A sense of relief. Better to know that the door has indeed shut on an era than to keep listening for and dreading the inevitable "wham." Time to start thinking about how to open the door anew.
Posted by: GFF | November 23, 2008 at 05:18 PM
My friends, I fear we are entering the Dark Ages.
This offense could be headed for a long period of impotency, with uncertainty everywhere.
On the O-line, who will be around next year? Will MJG get any better? Is Winston Justice a player or not?
At running back, how many injuries can Westbrook endure and remain as effective as the Eagles so desperately need him to be?
At wide receiver, are a Curtis and Jackson starting combination really potent? What are the physical advantages? How do you score in the red zone with these guys?
At tight end, is LJ coming back? Is Celek any good.
Ugly. It could be real ugly.
Posted by: BFH | November 23, 2008 at 05:45 PM
I know that once the season is cooked, it's time to see what we have in Kolb.
Today, however, was not the right spot. Not sure if he was even activated, but if you're going to bench McNabb, I think you should have gone with Feeley.
Think about it: with the very season hanging on the balance of what is still a very winnable game (10-7 at the half, with the defense playing great and special teams contributing), do you
a) Stick with your severely slumping QB
b) Put in the savvy vet who has proven his ability to perform in tough situations
or
c) Gamble totally on an unproven, untested virtual rookie.
If you're Andy Reid, you choose c.
I know it's no use wishing, but I'd still much rather go forward with a new head coach and gm than a new QB.
It's hard to be as bad on offense as the Eagles have been the past two weeks. It's ain't the players..it's the scheme.
Posted by: xtianDC | November 23, 2008 at 06:27 PM
My friends, here is the last two seasons succinctly put.
http://www.heptune.com/methane.wav
Do you disagree?
Posted by: Non Hippo | November 23, 2008 at 06:31 PM
Arguing about which QB was the best choice to save the season only matters if there's a season to be saved. There isn't.
As I've been saying for weeks, this is not a playoff team. I think the coaches need to do better and the QB certainly could do better, but the core problem is the players who are playing. They're simply not good enough. That doesn't mean they're all terrible -- there's plenty of talent at plenty of positions -- but there are too many holes and maybe not quite enough big-time players.
I also think it's funny that those who have spent three years blaming everything on Donovan are now bending over backwards to make excuses for Kolb.
The guy sucked. That end zone interception was a terrible, terrible play. Does that mean he doesn't have a future? No, not at all. Tough defense and not much in the way of practice meant he was in a tough position.
He still looked terrible and, obviously, for Eagles fans, that's a serious concern.
It's just one more reason he should be named the starter tomorrow, however. He clearly needs all the reps he can get in practice. If the team isn't going anywhere this year and McNabb's not going to be here next year, there's no point in not making the switch now.
Posted by: Derek | November 23, 2008 at 06:57 PM
Actually, on the offensive side of the ball, I wouldn't bring in anyone young except for Kolb. You want him to have as much of a chance as possible to do well, and if he has a bunch of ?-marks around him, it will be harder to evaluate him. After all, to a certain extent, aren't we feeling that way about McNabb right now?
Posted by: Doc | ballssticksstuff.com | November 23, 2008 at 06:57 PM
Oh, and by not bringing in anyone young, I meant in these remaining weeks. In the offseason, blow the whole thing up. Feel free.
Posted by: Doc | ballssticksstuff.com | November 23, 2008 at 06:59 PM
I'm not sure why this team would be entering a "Dark Ages". Look what happens when an owner or a GM makes the right decisions in personnel. You saw/see two prime examples just this season. A 1-15 team and a 4-12 team both have success this year in Miami and Atlanta, respectively.
The Eagles have certain pieces in place. They need a good draft and a few key free agent signings and those guys would change an 8-8 team into a 12-4 team.
You just have to make the smart moves.
Posted by: Eric | November 23, 2008 at 07:01 PM
But look at MJG. The guy's made a lot of mistakes this year of the type that are caused by inexperience. If he's going to be starting at one of the guard positions next year, he's obviously much better off for having played this year.
The same logic applies to Winston Justice and (perhaps) Mike McGlynn. If Tra and runyan are gone -- and that's looking more and more likely with every missed 3rd-and-1 -- then those young guys need to get out, both to show what they can do and to lay the groundwork for the future.
Ditto Celek, since today's decision clearly seems to indicate that LJ is not in the plans going forward.
Yeah, Kolb will have to eat a few sacks along the way, but it's not like it will muck up the run game or anything...
Posted by: Derek | November 23, 2008 at 07:04 PM
When you start quoting Tennyson, the season is really over.
Posted by: Ajay | November 23, 2008 at 07:27 PM
"A 1-15 team and a 4-12 team both have success this year in Miami and Atlanta, respectively...you just have to make the smart moves."
Uh, yea, like bring in a new coach and GM, as occurred in both of your examples.
"Reid isn't going anywhere, folks, so this isn't the end of the Andy Reid era."
Let's see, with Kolb at QB and a hurting BWest, I see ONE sure win game left on the schedule (Browns).
6-9-1 and 0-6 in the NFC East (2-10 against the NFC East over the past two years).
That sure as heck sounds like a record deserving of a pink slip to me!
Posted by: Eagles Fan in San Fran | November 23, 2008 at 07:37 PM
I think if the Eagles can't land a decent OT in the 1st round then they should take an OG. I think Herremans has enough finesse to be a left or right tackle. This team needs guards that are road graters. With Andrews out they have no push.
I don't know what McGlynn or Gibson have, but we'll see. I just think if one or all of the tackles are gone then Herremans needs to move out since he's not an inside strength guy and you have to get a pile mover.
Posted by: Eric | November 23, 2008 at 07:37 PM
I'm all for tanking the season. Has anyone seen Carolina's remaining schedule? It's all teams .500 or better. Let's just hope that pick ends up being at least a top 20 pick.
Posted by: Eric | November 23, 2008 at 07:39 PM
Derek,
I'm not panicking. (Ok, yes I am) But I know we shouldn't judge Kevin Kolb on the basis of what we saw today...obviously a very tough situation for a guy who hasn't really played before.
But...what's your impression of Kolb's arm strength? I know not many guys can chuck it like McNabb, but I was not impressed.
Posted by: BrianS | November 23, 2008 at 07:42 PM
"McNabb's career isn't even close to being over". Bullshit. He either can't or won't run. Without that threat he's a VERY ordinary quarterback.
What is it about Eagles fans?
Posted by: middyfeek | November 23, 2008 at 07:47 PM
I am a steeler fan and eagle fans suck,,,,what about standing behind your QB...it wears on a guy when he knows how every little thing ends in get rid of him...good thing Bill fans didnt blame Kelly for all those trip to the superbowl...what a shame to always be in the run year after year...just ask a Lions fan.........get real
Posted by: | November 23, 2008 at 07:53 PM
"I also think it's funny that those who have spent three years blaming everything on Donovan are now bending over backwards to make excuses for Kolb."
As opposed to those judging Kolb based on a half of a game played? The McNabb Cheerleading Society must have been praying that Kolb would stumble so they could come out firing to avenge their hero's criticism.
Posted by: | November 23, 2008 at 07:55 PM
Eric -- My point is that never in this decade have so many things been so uncertain about the Eagles offense.
Obviously there is Kolb, who is the biggest question mark.
But there are any number of other veterans besides McNabb who could be gone, and we have no idea if their replacements are any good.
Thomas, Runyan, Smith, obviously.
I also am less than confident in this group at receiver. Jackson is a legit weapon, but I'm not convinced quite yet that he's more than a niche weapon. He certainly has physical limitations on a squad that is already full of them.
Westbrook continues to suffer through seasons with rib, leg, and foot injuries. Not a recipe for long term success for a small running back. How long is this guy going to last? I love him, but it's a legitimate question.
We don't know if Celek is going to be any good, another question mark.
We don't know about the health of Shawn Andrews. We don't know about the progress MJG will make. We don't know if Winston Justice can play at all.
So yeah, like I said, there's more uncertainty than ever before.
I'm all for playing the young guys now. We need to see what some of these guys can do now, so there can be a off-season evaluation based on game-film against the real NFL.
Posted by: BFH | November 23, 2008 at 07:57 PM
From Rich Hofman:
"Running back Brian Westbrook has no first step, no burst, no nothing at this point because of a lingering ankle sprain. Backup Correll Buckhalter hurt his knee and barely played after the first couple of series. There is no third running back because Reid did not dress Lorenzo Booker. That this is borderline malpractice goes without saying."
Another stunning example of AR's ineptitude. Kolb has no chance with this clown running the show.
Posted by: Eagles Fan in San Fran | November 23, 2008 at 08:01 PM
Question?
What happened between the Rams/Cowboys/Steelers games and today?
That team looked really good, not flawless, but playoff bound. Same scheme and same players. Were they exposed by other coaches? If so, then the onus is on Reid and staff, not on the players. Was that a fluke-y, lucky team? Or did it just get really old really fast?
This season is toast, and this team has some very real problems, but none of those real problems explain what happened between wks 3 and today. Maybe they all gave up on the season early. Again, thats on Reid.
I dont know what happened, maybe nothing, maybe just a correction, but no matter how you slice it, it still does not belong on a cheesesteak.
Posted by: Evan | November 23, 2008 at 08:04 PM
Did anyone see McNabb yawn seconds before kickoff? I loved it. He just was punching in. How nonchalant and arrogant like another day at the office. He never made it to lunch.
Posted by: David Phelps | November 23, 2008 at 08:38 PM
I don't believe people should judge kolb on this performance. that's crazy, no practice, coming in as a rookie against a tough defense, and in a playoff situation to boot. remember garcia coming in after mcnabb got hurt against 2 years ago against tennesee, alot of people were calling for feeley. having said that, i don't believe the eagles will admit to being out of it, and they will go with mcnabb until they believe they are out of it. by the way, we all know they are out of it
Posted by: john | November 23, 2008 at 08:40 PM
by the way i'm new here. don't you all think i'm smart? i am so smart, i am so smart S-M-R-T
Posted by: john | November 23, 2008 at 08:41 PM
Derek...YOU'RE allowed to say that this isn't a playoff team. That's a stance that we as fans have a right to take. But I'm sorry...you're 5-4-1, only 1/2 game out of the wild card, you're down 10-7 at the half in Baltimore...and you think it's time to gamble the rest of the season on a virtual rookie with virtually zero regular season experience? I don't get it.
Reid will give Don the starting job back Thursday night. Kolb had the chance to take it, but he didn't exactly seize it. That's not an indictment on him or his prospects, necessarily. I just think you owe it to Don to keep the spot until the team is mathematically eliminated.
Posted by: xtianDC | November 23, 2008 at 08:58 PM
Is it just me, but I don't think Kolb looked like crap. I mean he got thrown in there and that had to be a shock. I;m sure he didn't get many reps with the 1st team. He drove us down running the west coast offense better than McNabb has in recent history. Then Andy lost his mind and ran a stupid ass pass on 2nd and inches. Didn't Westbrook get like 8 two plays before that? How bout a hand off to the up-back Klecko. They we're stopping it. Now I was a little concerned about Kolb's arm strength. He didn't appear to have anywhere near the cannon of Mcnabb, but Mcnabb is shell shocked. Didn't the Bengals game teach this suck up blogger anything? Guess not...
Posted by: Dan | November 23, 2008 at 09:02 PM
Did anyone hear this earlier in the week about McNabb's throwing mechanics. I'm not sure who said it, but they mentioned how McNabb's shoulders are always parallel with the LoS and not perpendicular. I, admittedly, never noticed. Then I actually watched it today. I just can't believe how poor mechanically he is. And this team has a QB coach as the head coach!
Watch the way the better quarterbacks stand and throw in the pocket. They stand with their hips/shoulders perpendicular to the LoS with their feet hip-width apart and the ball cocked and ready. McNabb routinely relies on poor mechanics and a strong arm.
That was fine when he could run and buy time. Now he has to be a pocket passer and his poor mechanics are exposing him little by little each week.
Posted by: Eric | November 23, 2008 at 09:06 PM
"I think it was unfair to bench Donovan. I was glad. Donovan's an All-Pro quarterback," said Samari Rolle. "I'd never heard of Kevin Kolb."
Posted by: Eagles Fan in San Fran | November 23, 2008 at 09:37 PM
I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp:
1) Kolb was in a tough situation.
2) Kolb played like crap.
That doesn't mean he IS crap. It's not like McNabb looked any better, and I'm not saying he's crap.
It does go to show, however, that when you're playing quarterback with no running game and your best (and sometimes only) weapon is all banged up, things aren't going to be easy for you.
But Kolb had a chance to come in today and make a statement. And he clearly didn't do it. Does that change my opinion on whether he should start the rest of the year? No. You're going nowhere, you have to find out what you have for the future and -- to be totally calculating about it -- what are the odds McNabb stays healthy the rest of the season playing in this offense facing the murderer's row schedule we've got coming?
Might as well protect his trade value.
Posted by: Derek | November 23, 2008 at 09:42 PM
There is no doubt now that Don is going down like AI. Why do we tear down our stars? Was Reid feeling pressure from the public and the media? Otherwise, how else do you explain AR completely losing faith in Don for the first time in what was a relatively close game? Not multiple season ending injuries. No, somehow a one score deficit against a dominant defense was the straw that broke the camel's back. Ho ho, something is stirring the pot. What is it?
Posted by: Sundar | November 23, 2008 at 09:48 PM
Donovan looked terrible. It's not like it was just an average performance where you could see him maybe snapping out of it. It was bad.
I also think it's funny that when Andy runs on short yardage (and they don't make it) he gets killed. Then when he passes on short yardage (and they don't make it) he also gets killed.
I know he put this roster together so you still have to hang that on him, but at some point, there's not much that playcalling can do if the players can't execute.
Posted by: Derek | November 23, 2008 at 09:53 PM
The funny thing about this was halfway through the 2nd I said to myself that he needs to pull McNabb for at least part of the 2nd half.
I was astonished he actually did it.
Posted by: Eric | November 23, 2008 at 09:54 PM
To everyone who says it is unfair to judge Kolb based on today's performance:
You are absolutely right. It was one half of a game, and he had NO CHANCE of succeeding for a number of reasons.
Which is why pulling McNabb at that point was FUCKING STUPID. On par with every other bonehead move Reid has made this year.
Personally, I think Reid was fearing for his job and panicked. Obviously this is wild speculation, but his thought process was either "I need to abandon the season and show that my young guys have some promise" or, much worse, he abandoned all sense and gave in to the loud, McNabb hating portion of the media/fanbase who have been cheering on his failures for the last several years.
Either way, he proved to be a coward today by not telling McNabb himself that he was done.
Was the rest of the offense surprised when Kolb starting warming up? What kind of message does that send when you don't address the team at halftime and tell them you are making that kind of change?
Reid has always been known to protect his players with the "it's my job to put them in a better position..." crap.
But when the situation is truly serious, he seems to cower. That sucks.
Posted by: BFH | November 23, 2008 at 09:55 PM
I mean, can you imagine the players at the start of the third quarter talking amongst themselves? "Wait, Don's benched?"
By not addressing the team at halftime no freaking wonder this team looked shell-shocked the whole second half. They were completely rudderless.
Posted by: BFH | November 23, 2008 at 09:57 PM
To quote a former NFL head coach, Andy Reid and the 2008 Phila. Eagles are "diddly poo". The window has closed, hopefully in the ensuing years it will start to open.
Posted by: tommcgill | November 23, 2008 at 09:57 PM
Just so we're all on the same page, is there anyone here who believes it IS fair to judge Kevin Kolb on today's performance?
Pretty sure no one's saying that.
Posted by: Derek | November 23, 2008 at 10:07 PM
The only way the Eagles can make the playoffs is not to lose any more games. 10-5-1 will trump 10-6 teams. This is a STEEP uphill climb with looming games against 3 division teams. Its is possible but unlikely we can run the tables.
Today Reid should've let Kolb play 2 or 3 series to send McNabb a message to get his act together and then put him back in. He was our best chance to win. But Reid stuck with Kolb the entire time which tells me McNabb is done for the season and with the Eagles. The end of the era is here. Kolb will start on Thursday.
McNabb has alot of value and I can see him being traded in the offseason to a team like the Vikings for a 2nd rounder or to a desperate team like the Lions for a 1st rounder.
We will have 2 first rounders and with a McNabb trade a high 1st day pick.
Runyan and Tra are gone. They have too many miles on them and have lost a step. Herremans & Andrews are moving to T next year with MJG and Nick Cole at G and Jackson remaining at center. I like that line up alot. A young like with experience.
A new era is beginning. Embrace it and be patient. Reid is here to stay. I just hope he doesnt have a bad draft this year....
Posted by: quest4fire85 | November 23, 2008 at 10:20 PM
> I just hope he doesnt have a bad draft this year....
I would go further than that. This is shaping up to be a franchise-altering draft, with all the picks you mentioned. That means it's absolutely critical to make sure whatever problems there have been with player evaluation in the past are fixed BEFORE this draft.
The single most important decision Lurie needs to make between now and the spring is what he should do about the personnel department.
Posted by: Derek | November 23, 2008 at 10:22 PM
Who would everyone like to see get more playing time from here on out?
Watching tonight's game, it would be at least interesting to see if Booker has any Darren Sproles in him by handing him the ball a few times a game or getting him involved with a screen or two. Let's try not to involve him in blitz pickup, though.
Winston Justice, here's your chance. Quentin Demps, yup. Hank Baskett, please Andy.
On a completely unrelated note... I was totally and completely shocked to see Sean Considine get beat by the Ravens no-name tight end on the goal-line today. Yep, couldn't believe it.
Posted by: BFH | November 23, 2008 at 10:27 PM
I'm not sure if I'm in favor of Cole and MJG starting at guard and Jackson staying at center. MJG may be improving, but he's just so slow and, despite his size, doesn't seem like he gets much push. Jackson has declined immensely.
If the plan is to move Herremans and Andrews out, then there are some good guards out there. Alex Mack will be there as a projected first round C/G out of Cal.
This is the draft they have to get an impact line player and another impact offensive person at RB or TE.
Posted by: Eric | November 23, 2008 at 11:10 PM
BFH, yeah, and he should have had a pass interference call on him there too.
Posted by: Eric | November 23, 2008 at 11:11 PM
It is not McNabb's fault, it is the play calling. McNabb does what he is told through the communication from Andy Reid. Andy gives him the same old plays that the whole NFL already knows. Andy is being too predictable with his plays. Andy calls plays in the red zone that shouldn't be played. For instance, you are in the red zone with inches to go, you're suppose to push it in, not a pass play. This way there is less risk in an interception and with a chance of a field goal if all else fails. This is one of many plays that Andy Reid does not change. Changing the quarterback will not make a difference as long as the same old plays are being called. We have seen a taste of this tonite with Kevin Kolb with the same play and same interception as McNabb.
Posted by: Freddie | November 23, 2008 at 11:25 PM
u erase my post last week/i been a mcnabb fan since su/listen please /mcnabb doesnt care anymore u cant win phila/a year for now u going be talking bout bench kolb u losers never learn/wow u was losing before mcnabb got and u will be losing after /everbody knows we cant run /so there going stay in nickel that means a lot of cornerback out there if u dont know bout football in which most of all yall dont /and our wrs sucksssssssss or tes sucksssssssssssss nobody cant get open i dont care who the qb isu fools wake the fuck up please please /andy reid dumb fat azz lost the game again/the score was only 7-10/after jesus kolb came in finally score 36-7 hahaha /when he goes to minn next year /i cant wait until we play phila god i cant wait /i cant wait /i cant wait /i cant wait
Posted by: kevin m | November 24, 2008 at 01:27 AM
Kevin, he probably erased it because it hurts all our brains reading your comments.
Posted by: Eric | November 24, 2008 at 07:02 AM
Actually, it was because Kevin called everyone [rhymes with maggots].
Posted by: Derek | November 24, 2008 at 09:50 AM
"McNabb has alot of value and I can see him being traded in the offseason to a team like the Vikings for a 2nd rounder or to a desperate team like the Lions for a 1st rounder."
I couldn't agree less. First off, Matt Millen got fired so we can forget about the Lions giving up a 1st rounder for a 31 year old QB with an injury history. Secondly, the team owes McNabb over $19 million over the next 2 seasons. Any team interested in McNabb and has a GM worth his salt will probably look to the Eagles to release him and sign him as a free agent rather than give up anything for him via trade.
Posted by: Tom | November 24, 2008 at 10:37 AM